Ayn Rand $ Objectivism's topics - tribe.net

Academic Zodiac & Real Time Renedering Systems

2008-06-19T07:43:55Z

First published by Klaudio Zic Publications, 2007, www.lulu.com/astrology. Copyright © 2007 by Klaudio Zic. All Rights Reserved. No part of this abstract may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or otherwise, for commercial purposes or otherwise, without the written permission of the author, except when permitted by law.

ACADEMIC ZODIAC

KLAUDIO ZIC
Academy for RTRRT and Scientific Astrology

ABSTRACT
The Academy of Scientific Astrology is based on astronomic principles confirming to the IAU convention. The calculations are performed on the HORIZONS integrator by Jon Giorgini of NASA JPL, Pasadena CA.
Subject headings: solar system – Academic Zodiac, astrology – precession of the ascendant, meridian constellations
Online material: www.lulu.com/astrology

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over empty space, he hangeth the earth upon nothing;

1. INTRODUCTION

Over the years the Academic Zodiac has been published, tested and tried in a variety of situations ranging from Eros landing to the discovery of the WMAP cold spot. It is our intent and duty to give credit while referring to the NASA JPL staff that guided our first steps into the fascinating world that we call universe. Our mission was not only to delineate all the dwarf planets, centaur objects and classes of special objects, but also study the universal horoscope much as the ancients would. Surprisingly, we have everything that is needed for such a study; in a word, we have NASA.

2. OBSERVATIONS

The ancients observed the skies. This matter of fact marks the difference between the ancient and modern. The visionary astronomers saw the exact positions of the stars according to precession as well as other energetic changes in the finer strata. Anyone observing the sky will determine the rising constellations. These change according to epoch and precession. The ascendant set is by no means static. Observation discloses the true nature of the skies: they rotate. As the skies rotate, the set of ascendants is changing. As the set of ascendants is changing, so does the pulse of this little planet, e.g. today we have a small set of ascendants, only 16, accounting for the uniform state of planetary culture.

3. DATA REDUCTION

The Academic Zodiac has been studied and published as based on scientific facts. The introductory study includes the precession of the ascendant, as well a special treatise on the meridian constellations.
The definition under 1) implies that there is a difference between eastern and meridian constellations, much as the local zodiac stands apart as separate system.
The same rules do not apply to ascendants and zodiacal constellations, much as a separate study of the meridian constellations is required in an astrologer.
The astrologer operating within the real sky environment learns to reduce the data to the essential: ascendant, Moon, star gates, WMAP cold spot and major conjunctions.
Data can be extracted by planetocentric analysis, e.g. In a Juno-centric marriage horoscope, Venus conjunct Bellatrix conveys data that were not obtainable by geocentric analysis.
4. MODEL

The Academic Zodiac spawns further models.

The Academic Zodiac with its standard 22 IAU constellations stands apart fro the set of eastern ascendants, whose number is 16.
The Cartesian house system regulates the uniform of stellar information in a given situation, whether during a seaquake (topocentric depression, negative altitude), on spacecraft or alien solar system. The board mainframe already incorporates such a system.
Scanning the local zodiac for travel purpose is executed by a basic program with preprogrammed zodiacs as well as input and correction capabilities. Zodiacs will be determined on the flight.

5. DISCUSSION

It would be beyond our expectations to find a primitive society handling the intricacies of precession and the zodiac. Slaves and primitives are expected to do as they are told, think as it is expected from their primitive culture, and most of all think big of their culture and leaders. The culture one is born into is the greatest of all times, for all practical purposes. One will not question since the experts do their job and one is not to interfere. It is clear that the Indian, Hebrew and Chinese civilizations are in turn the greatest of all. With due respect towards your civilization, mine is slightly greater than yours is.

6. SUMMARY

Neglect and occult reason have reduced the zodiac to speculative game for the masses. Asinine presumptions have Spica Virginis in Libra and soon Scorpius.
People born with Sun in Virgo are already being told that they are “Scorpio”. Soon the error will expand towards 90 degrees without anyone noticing.
Ascendant Pisces is being interpreted as Capricorn, even when Capricornus can not rise at due east for the epoch.
The Sun is in Libra for Sai Baba’s birthday, November 23rd.
Scores of people believe in the most improbable ascendants and zodiacal positions, such as Aries ascending or even “Pluto in Aries”. Apart from being ridiculous, such presumptions are dangerous in many ways. Pluto never enters Aries or Pisces, much as Eris will never enter Taurus at all. The people who handled the zodiac and ascendant set during the years were poorly educated to say the least. There may be even belief in 12 or 13 signs in the academic world, such is the pressure of the unconscious media upon modern daily mind.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Presidential Primary...

2008-05-09T00:07:03Z

Libertarian values are great, but not if represented by an idiot.

LETS USE REASON AS OUR ONLY ABSOLUTE!!!

If the rest of the candidates are going broke, it would seem to suggest that Romney, being quite accomplished, would have the best chance at improving our economy, cutting taxes & unneccessary GOV programs, excessive government spending, and bringing much needed integrity back to our country!

Mitt Romney --The Sign of the Dollar!!!

VOTE ROMNEY FOR A STRONG ECONOMY...

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 10 replies

Anyone from the Bay Area?

2007-12-23T00:37:24Z

Anyone from the Bay Area? I am re-reading the "Fountainhead", 1st read it when I was thirteen and I have a thirst to meet with others and form a local salon on all things Ayn Rand & Objectivism...

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

RE: "Environmentalists Are Muscling In on Atlanta's Water Supply"

2007-11-09T06:33:21Z

Ayn Rand Institute Press Release

Environmentalists Are Muscling In on Atlanta's Water Supply
November 7, 2007

Irvine, CA--With the Southeast suffering a prolonged drought, the city of Atlanta, Georgia, has only about a three month supply of readily accessible water. Nevertheless, in compliance with the Endangered Species Act, the Army Corps of Engineers continues to drain more than a billion gallons a day from Lake Lanier, Atlanta's main water source, to release it downstream for an endangered species of mussel.

"The Endangered Species Act is a danger to the human species," said Dr. Keith Lockitch, a resident fellow of the Ayn Rand Institute. "People find it hard to believe that environmental laws like the Endangered Species Act could really require the sacrifice of human beings to nature. But that is exactly what they have to mean in practice; they mean that in order to sustain some obscure mussel species, the people in Atlanta must go without water.

Environmentalists claim that blaming the mussels is unfair. They say it is just a way of diverting attention from the real causes of the water crisis, which, in their view, are a lack of strict water conservation mandates and the 'unbridled development' of metro Atlanta over the last few years."

But, says Lockitch, "this amounts to the bizarre claim that the problem is not a failure to build reservoirs and expand water capacity, but a 'failure' to obstruct economic progress and impose draconian water restrictions on Atlanta. In other words, the environmentalists' view is that Atlantans should sacrifice even more to nature.

"In fact, the opposite is the case. Solving the Southeast's water problems requires the rejection of the Endangered Species Act and environmentalist obstacles to development and growth. Indeed, the real solution is more profit-driven development. What is needed is a water management system that is entirely owned and operated by private individuals and companies, who would be driven by the profit motive to ensure a sufficient water capacity. A wholly private system would protect the rights of all users with a legitimate interest in the Chattahoochee River Basin--including metro Atlanta as well as the energy plants downstream and the Florida seafood industry in the Gulf--with no one requiring that human beings be sacrificed to mussels."

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 5 replies

Robert Wright: How cooperation (eventually) trumps conflict

2007-10-09T21:53:40Z

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/68

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

thirst for evolution.

2007-07-28T14:50:29Z

Hi everyone, Zigo here, its that time of the month:

Looking for a good thread, a topic of discussion, an investigation, a provocation, a mental challenge, an aspiration into the depths of a greater more realistically founded encounter with the 'balls of life.'

looking for a good "spar," I guess.

Anyone know of any good discussions elsewhere in tribe? or have any rattles to cage?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Let's Just Call It Subjectivism: Loathing of humanity drips from every page.

2007-02-24T18:34:58Z

The Fountainhead was a mess, but the follow-up, Atlas Shrugged, is a two-hundred-car freeway pileup. It is quite possibly the single worst successful novel ever written, a work of Edward D. Wood-ian awfulness that doesn't have the saving grace of being good-naturedly funny. Loathing of humanity drips from every page.

Fascism is also about the worship of force as the prime motive of life, rather than reason or cooperation. Hitler renamed it "will," but force it remained. Rand claimed to abhor violence, yet advocated that the state (the state she also abhorred for having the nerve to collect taxes!) be the final repository for force. This little internal contradiction never bothered her, apparently. Presumably she was talking about a rational, Objectivist state, nothing like the ones we have now -- although we're left without a word as to how such a state could be formed or maintained. I guess she never figured it was her problem to tell us how to do that.

Internal contradictions were the stock-in-trade with Objectivism. It was impossible to avoid them, since the whole thing was not about creating a sustainable way of life or even a philosophy to defend free trade and free thought. Objectivism consists of selfishness for dubious present gains, rather than altruism for a more sustainable future gains for both yourself and others. In game theory, such a strategy would be discarded, since it would leave everyone dead fairly quickly.

http://www.thegline.com/thought/2001/05-11-2001.htm

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 11 replies

Rene I call you out! There is no need for free will

2007-01-24T05:41:00Z

Free will is a central pillar of Ayn Rand's philosophy. I will convince you people free will is without scientific, practical or moral basis, you shall grow up from you adolescence.

Rene I call you out!

You believe in free will;

1. Where is your proof of free will?

2. If you have no proof for (1), which is very likely, why on earth do you need to believe free will?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 21 replies

Fundamental problems with Rand's ideas

2007-01-22T14:29:42Z

“If I had to pick a single brief passage that illustrated all of the fundamental problems in Ayn Rand's epistemology, this is probably the one I'd pick.”
http://home.neo.rr.com/jsryan/writings/creativity.html

“Objectivism contains several definite errors”
http://home.sprynet.com/~owl1/rand.htm

“but her epistemology and metaphysics miss much of the point of modern philosophy.”
“nothing can hide the relative shallowness of her knowledge”
http://www.friesian.com/rand.htm

“Fortunately for Objectivism, these unproven psychological assertions are not fundamental to the philosophy. “
http://www.jeffcomp.com/faq/wrong.html

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 25 replies

Penn & Teller: Bullshit

2006-12-22T14:18:14Z

Anyone watch that show on Showtime? I highly recommend it to any objectivist-minded individual. You'll laugh your ass off.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 2 replies

Francisco's Money Speech

2006-12-14T15:18:22Z

I remember almost jumping out of my chair the first time I read this. I knew I was reading an amazing book, but after I finished this section, I knew it would be the greatest book I had ever read. Talk about an integration of precepts - this is what first put it all together for me - the rest of the book simply flowed like water - I couldn't put it down after that.

---------------------------------

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears not all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil?

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made--before it can be looted or mooched--made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.'

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss--the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery--that you must offer them values, not wounds--that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade--with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability--and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money--and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.

"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich--will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt--and of his life, as he deserves.

"Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are.

"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves--slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers--as industrialists.

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money--and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being--the self-made man--the American industrialist.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide-- as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 6 replies

Objectivist Ecology

2006-12-04T23:13:55Z

I am interested in discussing this concept with others.

My main stance is based on the virtue of selfishness informing a correct, rational, scientific full-launch towards real ecological participation and awareness.

'Sustainability' is an instant necessity of Galt's principle: (paraphrase) I vow on my life that I will live for the sake of no other, nor ask another to live for the sake of my life.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 6 replies

DIM Hypothesis lectures online

2006-11-18T05:07:17Z

Leonard Peikoff's DIM Hypothesis lectures (15 lectures) are available free at aynrand.org if you do their free registration first. Takes a minute. Just thought i'd mention. Some of it is pretty interesting.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 2 replies

Milton Friedman RIP

2006-11-17T01:56:27Z

As the subject says. I never read the guy, but i know some O'ists think highly of him, so i thought i'd post.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Ayn Rand Institute Press Release

2006-10-26T03:22:24Z

Ayn Rand Institute Press Release

America's self-defense should not be left at the mercy of the United Nations
October 25, 2006

Irvine, CA--Iran is apparently expanding its nuclear program, and North Korea has hinted that it might test another nuclear bomb. Washington has committed itself to a "diplomatic" solution and is pushing for U.N. sanctions against Iran or North Korea. These sanctions, though, might be sunk if opposed by Russia or China or another country. So U.S. diplomats are busy trying to build international support for supposedly "tough" U.N. sanctions.

"But this entire approach is dead wrong. It sacrifices our self-defense to the whims of the so-called international community," said Elan Journo, a junior fellow at the Ayn Rand Institute.

"Our self-defense should not be left to the mercy of the dictatorship-infested United Nations, an organization corrupt to its core and manifestly hostile to America.

"We have a moral right to exist and defend our freedom. But our leaders do not believe that. That is why they want the approval of others, the endorsement of a 'consensus' supporting U.S. actions. Our leaders lack the confidence to act self-assertively to defend U.S. interests. But such independence--grounded in rational judgment and moral self-confidence--is indispensable to protecting our lives.

"Today's crisis is a product of U.S. inaction and appeasement of Iran. Taking military action against Iran is not only within America's rights, but overdue."

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 3 replies

Objectivist Pursuit of Evolved Consciousness

2006-09-29T18:17:56Z

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." _Albert Einstein

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 5 replies

Ayn Rand Institutes' Bogus Perspective

2006-09-29T05:47:46Z

Anyone here subscribed to their email stuff?

They send out these half-cocked 'letters to the editor' regarding current events. They are so severely un-scrutinizing of their own though process that I get severely confused about what the hell they are up to.. I can never figure out how an institute based on Rand can publish such BS

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 6 replies

'A Sense Of Life' - Ayn Rand Documentary

2006-09-29T05:23:18Z

Recently watched this, from Netflix.

Has anyone else seen it, any reviews, additions, qualms?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Religion

2006-09-28T04:46:00Z

I'm new to Ayn Rand's work, but perhaps someone could clarify this for me. Consistently throughought her book "The Virtue of Selfishness", Rand attempts to call religion and all things related as, well, senseless, limiting and a hindrance to the development of a rational mind.

To quote:

"To introduce into one's consciousness any idea that cannot be so integrated, an idea not derived from reality, not validated by a process of reason, not subject to rational examination or judgment - and worse; an idea that clashes with the rest of one's concepts and understanding of reality - is to sabotage one's integrative function of consciousness, to undercut the rest of one's convictions and kill one's capacity to be certain of anything."

Does that mean, according to Ayn Rand, that there is only pre-rational and rational, no post rational? It doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Rationality is one major faculty of the human experience, can there not be more, can it not be integrated into a maturing whole?

"... and kill one's capacity to be certain of anything." But, perhaps we are in the dark, and perhaps that is all right. What we call certain is only certain according to a limited collective experience of that 'thing'. Being in the dark does not equate to chaos, if it is not chaos you birth in the darkness.

Maybe I am not understanding Ayn Rand?

Just one more quote:

"His life and self-esteem require that the object and concern of man 's consciousness be reality and this earth- but morality, men are taught, consists of scorning the earth and the world available to sensory perception, and of contemplating, instead of a "different" and "higher" reality, a realm inaccessible to reason and incommunicable in language, but attainable by revelation, by special dialectical processes, by that superior state of intellectual lucidity know to Zen-Buddhists as "No-Mind", or by death."

Again, she misinterprets the Zen Buddhists. There no other world but here, there is no other time but now. There is nothing to escape. This may not be hard to misinterpret, considering a great deal of individuals who are intrigued by Buddhism are intrigued by 'salvation' of sorts, of leaving this world, transcending it somehow. No-mind is the complete and utter integration of all mind, body and spirit. The body is, the mind is, and the self is aware of both, aware of the world. The mind is no longer attached to thought, yet it may think, the mind is no longer attached to feelings, yet it may feel, the mind is no longer attached to spirit, so it simply is. The simple feeling of beeing. There is nothing so incapacitating about that, in fact, in my own experience, there is something vitalizing about that, something that stirs the intellect and allows all faculties of the human being to flourish. At the same time, one faculty does not overbear the other.

So perhaps I am misunderstanding her. She's a great advocate of reason and has many good points. There were just a few statements, some shown prior, that urked me enough to want to talk about it with other readers.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 23 replies

Questions About the Logic of Capitalism

2006-08-04T03:28:46Z

I'm a recent college grad, and just took my first job in the corporate world. To celebrate the occasion, I thought I ought to re-read "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged," which I read for the first time just before I entered college. I remembered liking "The Fountainhead" and being frustrated with "Atlas Shrugged." On re-reading them, I think that I can pinpoint the source of my frustration: there seems to be a contradiction inherent in Rand's philosophy, which becomes apparent when the two novels are read in close succession. I'm not posting to irritate or to attack Objectivists: I want to expose this theory to other people, to see if they can point out any flaws in my logic.

Here are my premises:

1. Rand states repeatedly, both subtly and overtly, that many or even most people do not choose to be rational and therefore do not make rational judgments.

2. Rand also argues that in capitalism (that is, in an entirely unregulated, untaxed free market) people would operate by the voluntary exchange of value for value (or, in more concrete terms, the exchange of money for goods and services) and that the people who provide the most valuable goods and services will receive the most money. In her theory, this would put the most rational and creative people at the top of society.

3. In a system of voluntary exchange, it is up to the individual consumer to determine what he or she considers valuable.

4. Profits are made when a good or service is sold, assuming that all products have prices that are higher than their manufacturing and distribution costs. The company that sells the most units will make the most profit.

5. If a company can only make a profit by appealing to masses of people, and most people cannot be relied upon to make rational decisions, then there is no way to be certain that masses of people will buy objectively good (functional, useful, durable, cheap) products. The profits will likely be made by Tooheys, Wynands, and Keatings - shrewd observers and manipulators of the public taste - rather than by the people whose work is best by objective standards.

Thoughts?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 10 replies

Why do you guys respect Ayn so much?

2006-05-03T20:30:56Z

I don't at all.

http://www.friesian.com/rand.htm

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 158 replies

The Narcissism, Scapegoating and Leftism of Ayn Rand

2006-05-03T19:56:35Z

"Objectivism, rather than being a defense of free-market libertarianism, is a narcissistic, scapegoating, and leftist expression of Rand's Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

http://home.att.net/~bob.wallace/rand1.html

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 3 replies

Viva Los Angeles!

2006-04-30T00:46:22Z

I case anyone has the wrong idea in their head.

I happend to spend most of the day today with my (mostly very wealthy) co-workers. The story was repeated over and over again.
"My maid/gardener/nanny/handyman/construction crew asked me if they could come in to work on Saturday or Sunday so that they could have Monday off for the protest rally."

Anyone wondering where the American work ethic is, should look to the streets on May Day.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Objectivist Summer Conference

2006-03-12T02:08:34Z

Will anyone here be in attendance to the OSC 2006? I will be held in Boston June 30 to July 8. There should be a wealth of information and inspiration there. Let me know if anyone is interested in registering - I can forward you some info that should be of help.

t.h.e.o.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 4 replies

A psychological test

2006-02-28T16:49:03Z

http://extremehonesty.tribe.net/thread/b46a3fde-6299-47ab-b19c-3f3c11b52862

Post your answers in this thread not the above thread. I want to compare answers from different tribes.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

for your edification.

2006-02-27T05:16:34Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/goldbugs/thread/8edf38a0-22b3-43d1-bfab-7ddec161c095

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Looters!

2006-02-27T03:39:33Z

According to Newsweek (Feb 6, 2006) Ford recieved a $250 million tax break from the Amercan Jobs Creation Act of 2005. Despite having cut 10,000 jobs and announcing future cuts.

Apparently, this law allowed Ford to pay 5.25% tax on overseas profit rather than the standard 35%. The law did not require them to create jobs.

Grrrrr.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 4 replies

Randian cross-fertilization.

2006-02-26T13:34:20Z

The previous thread in here, though mostly a waste of time, did provoke some interesting questions for me regarding everyone's personal absorbtion of Rand's ideas and objectivist theory-

I am curious to hear what other philosphies, books, backgrounds people also use as inspiration points for understanding and cultivating their own minds. What backgrounds/ideologies do people come from, have they assimilated their understandings from different stances to work and cross-pollinate effectively with objectivist thought in their reasoning process?

I have Christian fundamentalism, environmental theories of bio and cultural diversity, Eastern mystical traditions, Scandanavian/Norse Indigineous mysticism and Randian thought all constantly working to justify themselves against each other in my day-to-day process. I would be interested to hear about the flow of things for others.

internal conflicts? perfect fits?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 4 replies

Dagny

2006-02-19T18:38:40Z

lets get into the meat of it....

I am reading Atlas Shrugged yet again, however; I am a very different person than the first or second time I read it. Dagny was powerful to me then, but I find I am starting to understand her much more profoundly - particularly in relation to the men in her life.

I have no question or opinion I can articulate right now, but I would love to start a discussion about Dagny.... and Fransico.... and Hank... and John.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 13 replies

Thank you

2006-02-18T00:31:29Z

To all those who tried to convince me to read 'Atlas Shrugged' in the past, of which there were many, I say thank you. I wish that I had been in a position to accept your advice at that point.

To the one who I respected enough to take the advice, I say most sincerely, thank you. I have read just one third of the book and it has made more of an impression on me than I can possibly express in a few brief words. In the first forty pages it had already given me so many insights into myself and the way I feel and intereact with the world at large that I could barely contain myself.

When I started I could barely read more than 20 pages at a time before I must take a cigarette break and let myself absorb what I've read. At this point I can barely read more than 20 pages before I have to stop and take a cigarette break because I want to rage at the world or myself. It makes me want to scream or laugh out loud in alternating succesion.

It is truly mind altering. I read voraciously and have my entire life and I can only think of one other book that has had this sort of impact on me and I can see the threads that connect it to this one. I wish I had known then what I know now.

Thank you, one and all.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 5 replies

New Tribe - For a Gold Standard

2006-01-12T21:27:47Z

Because inflationism is a form of control
http://tribes.tribe.net/goldbugs

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Objectivism and Capitalism

2006-01-10T21:10:44Z

Hey you guys,

I have just recently immersed myself into the world view of the Objectivist, and have a few little queries. One of the things that really interests me is the concept of Capitalism in todays Global Economy. How close do you think that today's form of Capitalism resembles what the Objectivist would agree with, and how much of it is really just a big cover up for fitting into the world of the looters? Just a little thought, because I see a lot of "Objectivists" identify themselves as Capitalists. What do you mean by that? Does that extend to the full definition of what Rand means?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 5 replies

the best i've read

2006-01-05T21:04:18Z

it really is a smart piece of...

a long read but worth it...i think it came out a while back, yet this is the first i came across it...a bit one-sided but a haunting read

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp?pg=1

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

New tribe - objectivist singles

2005-11-28T03:52:01Z

If you're single and are 'real' and honest with yourself and want to meet others like yourself, come check out objectivist singles. If you think Dagny Taggart or Howard Roark in Atlas Shrugged were hot, come on over.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Dealing with new belief system

2005-11-16T05:58:28Z

For those in the same situation I am in (or those who remember going through this)...

I just finished a 2-year long endeaver to read Atlast Shrugged. This morning I started The Fountainhead. I think part of the feet dragging in finishing Atlas was realizing I belive in the objectivist philosophy more than the belief system I held for my entire life, and in all reality that is life changing and confusing.

I only know one or two people I can actually discuss all of the thoughts and questions running through my head. I realize this is my journey, but I am wondering how others dealt with it.

Anyone care to share?

Thanks!

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 17 replies

Objectivist Sex

2005-09-12T21:43:28Z

I notice patterns with this topic. It seems often to be about submission. The most interesting sex topic I have seen is Francisco's sex speech to Hank Rearden. I really liked that. It just clicked with me about desiring those for their morals. It makes me feel better about guys lack of interest in me because I have them. What have you noticed about sex in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged and other Rand novels or non fiction works?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 25 replies

Race and Privilege

2005-09-06T22:59:01Z

I absolutely loved reading both the Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, and Anthem. Could not put them down, and other books I read seriously paled in comparison. I would be awestruck, because the resonance I felt for Ayn's words was incredible--then suddenly, I would crash into this impenetrable veil for a few pages, because she would talk about all of these "savages", most of which were the darker peoples of the world. She would pass harsh judgements of these people (which I happen to be a descendant of), with no regard to the elaborate infrastructures set up by the world powers, which created their situations, and moreover, forces their continued existence. Am I alone here in this issue? I have considered the time period that Ayn was writing in...but she was in America, and although the Civil Rights movement hadn't changed the common perception of "colored" people, the Harlem Renaissance stood as evidence for the above average thinkers-- of which Rand should have been a member. What are your opinions? Should I just overlook this. or should I expect more of Rand? I, obviously have my own opinion... but I am curious to know what YOU think. The title of this discussion, serves as added food for thought.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 4 replies

New Objectivist Writers

2005-06-22T20:07:02Z

Anyone in this tribe Familiar with any recent Objectivist or pseudo-Objectivist writers. What is your oppinion of writers like Robert J Ringer?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 3 replies

Objectivist Blogs

2005-04-13T11:42:26Z

Do you read any good objectivist blogs?
I'm not sure if mine is good - but you might enjoy some of the stuff on there..

http://disaffiliates.blogspot.com

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 3 replies

Casting Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead

2005-03-23T17:01:35Z

I got bored so I casted Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead under my photos. Check them out on pages 2-4. Tell me where you agree and disagreee.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 24 replies

Capitalist Hawk for Kerry (article)

2004-10-12T05:04:09Z

Capitalist Hawk for Kerry
by Craig Biddle

John Kerry is despicable, and I will vote for him.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3960

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

Opposing Platonic Conservatism: A Matter of Values

2004-10-12T04:15:13Z

Opposing Platonic Conservatism: A Matter of Values
by John Lewis, Ph.D.

Some people think that philosophy is irrelevant in this election; after all, there is a real emergency to be solved. But philosophy matters; it is why we have a deadly emergency.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3961

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

The Woman As Hero...

2004-10-11T07:09:25Z

I admit, I'm new to this. I read on another objectivist discussion board that Rand believed that women could not be heroes and that the most they could aspire to would be "hero worship". I would like to know if this is true. If you know of specific links to primary resources written by her on the subject, please let me know because I personally can't see her believing that. This is why it must be primary.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

First exposure

2004-09-29T07:03:17Z

Where were you first exposed to Ayn Rand's ideas?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 11 replies

Or maybe...

2004-08-28T19:38:27Z

... Your so-called "philosophy" is really just a pathetic attempt at a semi-elaborate front to cover up the fact that, when it comes down to it, you're just a selfish asshole.

--

If there's a child on the South Side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child.

If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for their prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandparent.

If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties.

It is that fundamental belief -- it is that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work.

It's what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family. "E pluribus unum." Out of many, one.

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes.

Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America.

There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America -- there is the United States of America.

The pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states; red states for Republicans, blue states for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states.

We coach Little League in the blue states and have gay friends in the red states.

There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it.

We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or do we participate in a politics of hope?

- Barack Obama, 2004

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 8 replies

Neo-Tech.com

2004-08-27T03:09:43Z

Any knowledge/opinions of neo-tech.com?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 2 replies

Capitalistchicks.com

2004-08-14T20:32:48Z

Guess who is the capitalist chick next door this month on capitalistchicks.com?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 9 replies

Civilization/Privacy (Rand on Tribes)

2004-07-27T03:26:38Z

I may not be the first to bring this up and if so I apologize but I just saw this in a quote book I have and had to share it.

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." (The Fountainhead)

I don't remember reading this but it definitely makes a point toward right of privacy and also I think that with the right to privacy one can finally be a free "minority of one."

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 2 replies

You might find this one curious...

2004-07-23T19:06:39Z

I've been having some fun in the Bush v. Kerry tribe at some of the leftist mystics expense - I've irked one of them quite badly, I guess...so he has attempted to devote a thread to debunking my "selfish" ways...I think you might enjoy the thread, assuming it develops (I guess I'll respond eventually).

http://www.tribe.net/tribe/servlet/template/pub%2Ctribes%2CViewThread.vm?threadid=4bc1ccbe-d42e-4613-b6e8-98f10813df47&tribeid=076f9e56-be6a-4f97-a6f3-2665d62ca32e

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 1 reply

Does anybody want to defend capitalism?

2004-07-23T15:38:23Z

Under the "barring the US" thread in Left, Right, and everything in between there is a huge barrage against me, including personal attacks against my defense of capitalism. Does anybody want to help me. I am in the middle of a pack of liberals like Uma Thurman in Kill Bill Volume 2 and I get really sick of it.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 24 replies

defending capirolism ;-)

2004-07-16T23:14:24Z

http://www.tribe.net/tribe/servlet/template/pub%2Ctribes%2CViewThread.vm?threadid=7fbab0d5-cead-41ad-80c7-1174eb350b84&tribeid=53a57dda-b7f0-4676-874a-a0db968d279a

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Parodies

2004-06-22T20:41:49Z

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/critics/humor.html

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 5 replies

I don't say much in here

2004-06-22T05:22:34Z

Really since I agree with almost everything written, I'd like to invite all of you to these tribes:

Information Warfare, Culture Jamming, ideafactory, Social software intellectuals,

They are great for concepts and gleaning different viewpoints.

Also anyone into Rand is tops with me so the interested have an open invite to join my network! Cheers!

Kevin

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 0 replies

Rand was right

2004-06-12T02:55:45Z

Go to the right wing pages and see what liberals are saying. I have been trying to defend capitalism and I get the exact response Rand said I would get. I am a selfish capitalist looking out for my own interests. When I said it is wrong to punish achievement, liberals claimed how perfect I was for capitalism. How amazing that Atlas Shrugged, published in the 1950s warns us about people today.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 6 replies

Howard Roark and God.

2004-06-07T00:39:44Z

It's really interesting that Objectivism discards all forms of 'supernatural' powers as they are not explainable by rational processes. Now Many a times God is percieved as help for people in tough time. Roark went through tough times, but never in Fountainhead has it been mentioned that he asked for help from some supernatural power or GOD.

Now let me ask a question :

Is it really possible with people?

The very concept of God is rested on faith. The psychological advantage of having God on 'your side' helps and makes people perform better.

Is it really the case that 'we' can shun the belief in God, and live as 'Objectively' as Roark did?

Sid.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 7 replies

Welcome! Let's start with

2004-06-07T00:33:25Z

an introdction and let's hear which of Rand's books you've read. I'm Greg, of course. As of today, I've read "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged." I'm working on "Philosophy: Who Needs It" and "Romantic Manifesto."

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 27 replies

This is John Galt Speaking

2004-05-21T19:49:56Z

Has anyone ever seen a condensed version of this chapter of Atlas Shrugged, a la Cliff's Notes? I hate to even have to ask for something like that, but shortly before coming to this chapter in the book, I had to go on some medication (I'm Bipolar) and it's really messing with my ability to comprehend and I don't want to miss out on the most important part of Rand's philosophy. I think I'm getting the main gyst of it, but if there were a summation of it, I wouldn't mind reading that, too.

That being said, what do you think Rand would think of people like myself who have actual disorders and disabilities, people who need help to get by in life, be it mental disorder, or physical? I consider myself a strong Libertarian, and I struggle to be fully self-sufficient, but I fall sometimes and have had to rely on the support of others at times because of my disorder just to keep from being homeless or even killing myself. I hate myself for not being a mentally perfect human being, cabaple of taking care of myself in every way. Does Rand say anything about the less than perfect human being? Must I always damn myself for being born the way I am and falling no matter how hard I try? Am I missing something here? I want to be able to enjoy life, and not at the expense of others. I don't want to be a burden on anyone. But sometimes I feel the only way to not be a burden is to sin against myself and destroy myself, and even that will cause others pain. What is the moral choice? Is there one? I know I am supposed to find the answer within myself and not look to others, but I am lost. Atlas Shrugged didn't address the less than able-bodied or able minded that I could tell.

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 6 replies

Atlantis

2004-05-07T17:33:50Z

OK, folks. Those of you who have read "Atlas Shrugged" will be familiar with the community called Atlantis, where the producers of society lived, while the remaining morons went about destroying what was left of America. What are your thoughts on such a place? Could it be created? Would it work? Would you want to live there? And let's imagine for a moment that a real life Atlantis was going to be created - where would be a good place to build it?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 17 replies

Objectivism as a way of life

2004-05-01T09:06:39Z

I just recently began my quest to understand Objectivism. I started by reading The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I thoroughly enjoyed these novels so much that I decided to become a student of Objectivism and see whether or not I agreed with the entire philosophy, or just parts of it. So since I'm only beginning to scratch the surface of understanding, I'd like to know:

Who among you considers yourself an Objectivist?

How long have you been familiar with the philosophy?

How has adherence to O'vism impacted your life?

posted in Ayn Rand $ Objectivism - 11 replies